A couple years ago, before I was through the worst of my
crisis of faith, and, I think, before all of us had gained a bit of perspective
on the whole social-media thing, I was having some, uh, struggles with folks as
I tried to be honest with where I was at. Lots of emails, some of the
conversations less welcome than others. Here's an example of the former, from
someone who has been a Sunday school teacher in the Reformed
Presbyterian Church of North America, a denomination from which I officially
departed in 2009. I've edited our exchange very slightly to protect her
identity. Otherwise, I've left it as is, including the grammatical mishaps.
This was my final, rather defensive email (my paragraphs in black) to her, and
she wrote back her responses pasted in at various points. Since she is the
professing Christian here, I've given her the honor of the red-letter edition.
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I do respect your religious commitment to the extent that it
is a motivation for doing/being good in the world. And I appreciate your
openness about your own spiritual journey. I simply wish you would grant the
same respect. But your e-mail makes it clear that you believe yourself to be
alive and me to be dead. This judgmental assumption, after virtually no contact
with you for years, is astounding and misguided.
Your right I haven't had any contact with you but your post
speak volumes to me. That is where my confusion came in. Many of the things you
posted and the responses by friends were rather a slap in the face to
Christianity. What am I supposed to think? I was not aware that you
"left" Christianity or Evangelicalism. You are not the first person I
have known to "leave" and sadly you won't be the last. However can
you really leave something you never really had? I mean you were raised in a
Christian home, brought up in the church , taught the bible and had the whole
covenant child thing going for you but do you really understand the gospel?
You do not know that leaving evangelicalism, and openly
admitting my doubts to my closest friends and family, was based not only on
careful consideration but also quite literally the need to survive and to live
with integrity. And you've underestimated how shattering such a shift has been.
I have seen how damaging it can be. Like I said your not the
first I have seen.
The idea of hell has always been deeply troubling to me,
just as any form of torture or violence is. I do not believe that I, or you,
deserve to endure excruciating pain for all eternity. I cannot worship a God
who would respond to the human condition with such primitive vehemence. I really
can't. It's not a choice.
Okay this statement here says it all. You are saying that
you can't worship a God who's holiness demands justice and that you know the
human heart better then He does. In your finite understanding you are saying that you have more compassion
and understanding then God does because God is this tyrant who is prone to
emotional out burst to innocent people and takes great pleasure in torturing
them. Tell me that isn't taking your
finger and shoving it in His face? So I am assuming that because you can't
worship a God like that you really see no need for a savior. So Jesus was just
some great guy who taught us how to be "good" When Jesus sweating
blood and agonizing over the cup He was going to have to drink was just
"stupid"? He didn't need to feel the weight of divine displeasure
against man, or feel the wrath of God poured out against sin. He didn't need to
be executed by man and rejected by God. If there is no hell there was no need
for Jesus to be hung on a cross for sinners. You do not get the cross. The
cross is foolishness to those without the Spirit. If your good enough you can
save yourself. I think you need to start being honest with yourself. You have
taken your finger and shoved it in His face.
I do continue to respond to many of Jesus' teachings, and I
continue to take the Bible seriously (though not infallibly).
Seriously? You like the teachings of Jesus that justify your
sin. You twist it to fit your agenda and make yourself feel good. You either
take the whole Bible as being the WORD of God or you don't. There is no middle
ground.
Tonight I'm reminded of Jesus' rejoinder about loving our
neighbors and also of his illustration of that. The guy in the
"wrong" religion does what we all can agree is good--helps the one in
need. And Jesus commends him. Jesus praises someone outside the
"correct" faith because of the good he has courageously and quietly
done. "The good he has courageously and quietly done"--I've
experienced so much love, so much good, from all sorts of people, both those
"alive" and "dead." This is what I think really counts. I
guess you and I can agree that what's most important in life is, as you put it,
"who you are." But my answer to who I am is not either "dead"
or "alive" as your note suggests.
There is no neutrality. Either you are dead to the things of
God and spiritually bankrupt or you are alive to the things of God and embrace
ALL of who He is.
My answer must depend on what I am about, what I do. We are
known by our fruits (to borrow from the NT).
It is more then good works. As the bible says our good works
are but filthy rags before Him. The only true good works that we can do to
please God are those He set up for us to do in His Son Jesus.
And those who know me well know that I am still Evie. I do
not "give God the finger" or tell him to fuck off.
What does that mean exactly? Yes you do! By denying Him that
is exactly what you are doing.
I do cry a lot. I want very much to help others and minimize
hurt. I take actions based on that genuine desire for the well-being of my
fellows.
Because you think you know better then God? You think that
you have more compassion, more grace, more love, more mercy for humanity then
He does. How arrogant.
I think we generally know love when we see it. We know when
we've been truly heard out and understood. We recognize grace when it is given.
To be completely frank, I saw so little of these qualities in your comments on
my wall or in this e-mail, despite its closing phrase.
How do you know if you deny the creator of love? and can't
understand the cross? How can you understand grace if you have no clue about
your condition before a holy God and the sacrifice that was paid on your
behalf. Please, once again I ask you to be honest with yourself. To be completely frank I haven't seen much
from you either. I am sorry that I do not respond the way you think that I
should.. Please, until you can remove the plank from your own eye don't try and
remove the splinter from mine. I am not going to coddle you and tell you its
okay to believe whatever you want. Because I care I am taking the time to even
address these issues. If I didn't care quite frankly I wouldn't waist my time.
I know that it is not my job nor my responsibility to "change " your
mind, however we are to tell the truth no matter how painful it is. I am asking
you to be honest with yourself and to realize that you do flip God off and you
have set yourself to be better then God. That is the sin that plagues humanity
and we are ALL guilty. My prayer is that some day you may come to the cross and
truly understand the price that was paid for sin and be humbled by it. That the
gifts that God has so graciously given you will one day be used for His glory
and not for your personal gain. It does sadden me that someone like you who has
been given so much and has the ability to truly help those in need can become
so hardened to the gospel. The one and only thing that can truly help humanity
and you have turned your back on it. What can you offer them? what can you give
them that offers them any kind of hope or peace?
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Although this exchange occurred prior to the blessed advent
of the unsubscribe button, the unfriend option did indeed exist, and I took
advantage of it at this point. Heh.
When my brother was about two years old, Mom recorded an
audiotape during which she reads a picture book with him.
"And what's that?" she says, then waits.
"C'mon, you can do this. Say truck."
"Uhhh? Uhhh!" is all he replies. This exchange
occurs on every page, Mom pointing hopefully at familiar objects, asking my
brother to identify them, and him giving a consistently joyful but
unintelligible response.
In the beginning we are without words; the words are with
God. This is before Adam's given naming rights, and we start making sense of
everything, in a word. Everything, that is, except our own souls.
7 comments:
Always sorry to see forceful and harsh responses Evie. Much love to you.
The Lord is waiting for you with open arms to run back to him and embrace him. He misses you terribly. He loves you and is waiting for you to "blindly" trust that because he is so beautiful so gracious and so kind as illustrated in his word so clearly, you can also trust him with what Hell is all about. Noone knows for sure but we can but trust in what he has shown us what we do know to be true. So much he clearly illustrated for us and that is that he is absolutely beautiful, perfect, and true. There is no lie or blemish in him and he loves us completely just the way we are after all he created us. :) When we embrace him with childlike faith that means we trust because we love what we have experienced and know. He leaves some things for us to not be able to answer because he wants us to have blind faith. It is what makes us grow spiritually just like sit ups not fun give you an amazing stomach exercising our faith gives us a strong spiritual life that will cause us not be knocked down and around when trials hit. He is actually taking care of and preparing us for life by making us spiritually strong. Life is hard and we need God and faith in him and what he is doing just to survive :)
He states he wants us to have childlike faith, Just like a child we will have questions and sometimes not get answers but we believe and trust because of the love and what we "see" that is true.
To prove the extent of this unconditional undying love for us he climbed up on the cross and died for us. <3 I love you Sweet Evie
As usual, Evie is courageous and publicly honest about an issue that is deeply personal and emotional. Over the years, the responses from her RP friends, "friends" and family have varied in their compassion and coherence. While I think (hope)most people have approached Evie from a place of love and concern, I wish everyone would ditch the rhetoric (as if she hasn't heard it) and realize that it's hard enough to come to terms with one's own faith, why try to convince everyone else to understand God the way you do? Please act justly (and leave Evie alone), love mercy (and leave Evie alone) and walk humbly with YOUR God (and leave Evie alone).
This is why I hate organized religion, with the exception of Buddhism. The comments of the person in red are all-or-nothing, black-and-white, hateful, ugly, and ironically drive away a thoughtful if not blindly orthodox person. Run from this person (and church), Evie. Run and don't look back. You are a good person in yourself. You, and anyone's goodness springs from their thoughts and actions, not whether you bow down to the words of a violent, oppressed, often contradictory narration written 2,000 years ago by nomads in the desert.
Hi my name is Gina and those words in red are mine. I still stand by what I said however I am saddened that the whole email was not used.I have not spoken to Evie sense this email because I had been defriended on facebook and figured there was no reason to continue. I had actually deleated the email because life has to go on and there is no reason to dwell on the things of the past. I would have appreciated a email saying that my private converstaion was going public. That would have been the honest and respectful thing to do. Instead it was brought to my attention by another source.
Apparently the reason for this blog was to defame my chartacter and how mean and judgemental I am. I am saddend Evie that you can preach one thing but not hold to your own convictions. It is okay for you to judge my character and put it on an open forum but not okay for me to do the same thing. Very saddend by this. Next time you have an axe to grind with me and want to do it in open forum I ask for two things 1) you give me the respect by asking first 2)post the whole email.
Whoa. As I just replied to the personal message you sent me, in which you angrily assured me that you still stand behind every single word and have no regrets, I did not bring your character into question. In fact, I was careful to veil any possible ties to your identity. I shared what I see now to have been a really interesting exchange. Peace to you.
And I have no axe to grind. I did not write this because I am holding a grudge. But I do have experiences and stories, like you, that I think are worth exploring and learning from, even though it sometimes hurts. And as a writer, I sometimes use "found material" as a source for unpacking or shedding light on a matter. The omissions I made were aimed at protecting you from any backlash (something I am familiar with).
I wish you all good things, Gina.
Careful, Gina. Those who are so easily and often "saddened" may one day discover they are just Sad.
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